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02-11-2011, 06:30 PM

My BBC phrase book has the katakana & hiragana in it, so I'll learn them off-by-heart. I already know some


I'm a Cafe-kko, Nyappy in the World. But GazeRock is not dead. 「Sixth Gun」です



An Cafe, Vidoll, Versailles, Dir En Grey, Deathgaze, the GazettE, alice nine., UVERworld, Kiryu , YUI, AKB48, Buono!, Berryz Koubou, C-ute, S/mileage, Morning Musume, Zoro, Lolita23Q, Visual Kei, Oshare Kei, J-Rock, J-Pop, Idol groups FTW (≧∀≦)
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RobinMask (Offline)
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02-11-2011, 06:33 PM

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Originally Posted by SCIFFIX View Post
why, anything wrong?

I think it's a good way to learn some words.
What's wrong? English grammar and Japanese are not the same, and you can not directly translate from one to another. "I am going to town" and "machi ni ikimasu", for example, would not match up accurately with Japanese audio to English subtitles. What I mean is say a person heard 'machi' and then saw underneath in subtitles "I am", if they are learning solely from anime and without a textbook/teacher, why wouldn't they assume that 'machi' is 'I am'?

That's just one example of why it'd be a bad idea for a beginner. Not to mention that translation is an art, not a science, some figures of speech and colloquialisms - even everyday words - have no equiviliant in another language, so the translator has to find the nearest/closet match, in which case the subtitles are nothing alike the audio.

I think it's great to pick up the odd word. Like a character on Bleach kept repeating "Hage" and I could pick up it meant 'bald', but even then I didn't learn it was actually a very offensive insult until reading on a recent thread so. So if I was going solely by the anime and I innocently called someone 'bald', I could probably be insulting them greatly.

It's only real purpose is with intermediate and above level speakers, to test their knowledge. Its such a flawed method of learning for beginners I could rant about it all day . . .
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02-11-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinMask View Post
What's wrong? English grammar and Japanese are not the same, and you can not directly translate from one to another. "I am going to town" and "machi ni ikimasu", for example, would not match up accurately with Japanese audio to English subtitles. What I mean is say a person heard 'machi' and then saw underneath in subtitles "I am", if they are learning solely from anime and without a textbook/teacher, why wouldn't they assume that 'machi' is 'I am'?

That's just one example of why it'd be a bad idea for a beginner. Not to mention that translation is an art, not a science, some figures of speech and colloquialisms - even everyday words - have no equiviliant in another language, so the translator has to find the nearest/closet match, in which case the subtitles are nothing alike the audio.

I think it's great to pick up the odd word. Like a character on Bleach kept repeating "Hage" and I could pick up it meant 'bald', but even then I didn't learn it was actually a very offensive insult until reading on a recent thread so. So if I was going solely by the anime and I innocently called someone 'bald', I could probably be insulting them greatly.

It's only real purpose is with intermediate and above level speakers, to test their knowledge. Its such a flawed method of learning for beginners I could rant about it all day . . .
Yeah, you are right. I really forgot that topics, especially regarding the accuracy of translations. Please, forget about what I said and thanks for the explanation.


Video Games: Serious Business

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Cayla (Offline)
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02-12-2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinMask View Post
What's wrong? English grammar and Japanese are not the same, and you can not directly translate from one to another. "I am going to town" and "machi ni ikimasu", for example, would not match up accurately with Japanese audio to English subtitles. What I mean is say a person heard 'machi' and then saw underneath in subtitles "I am", if they are learning solely from anime and without a textbook/teacher, why wouldn't they assume that 'machi' is 'I am'?

That's just one example of why it'd be a bad idea for a beginner. Not to mention that translation is an art, not a science, some figures of speech and colloquialisms - even everyday words - have no equiviliant in another language, so the translator has to find the nearest/closet match, in which case the subtitles are nothing alike the audio.

I think it's great to pick up the odd word. Like a character on Bleach kept repeating "Hage" and I could pick up it meant 'bald', but even then I didn't learn it was actually a very offensive insult until reading on a recent thread so. So if I was going solely by the anime and I innocently called someone 'bald', I could probably be insulting them greatly.

It's only real purpose is with intermediate and above level speakers, to test their knowledge. Its such a flawed method of learning for beginners I could rant about it all day . . .
I agree with you, by the way I've already tried that, but I cant exactly follow
the words.(like you said)
But at least she or he could help.
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Cayla (Offline)
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02-12-2011, 02:34 AM

You know "RobinMask" you must be like extremely smart!!!!
But just today I learned in SS(social studies) that there is a "thing" you can go through and learn more about the culture you will soon go to. I can't remember the name of what it was.

Robin, I just wanted to know what was your best subject in all the grades
up to fourth grade?
Mine is spelling. I promise you in my entire life I have NEVER EVER gotten below an A in spelling.

Last edited by Cayla : 02-13-2011 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Cayla's Dad, edited for...spelling! hahahaha
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Cayla (Offline)
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02-12-2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamboP26 View Post
My BBC phrase book has the katakana & hiragana in it, so I'll learn them off-by-heart. I already know some
What on Earth is katakana & hiragana?!

Last edited by Cayla : 02-12-2011 at 02:59 AM.
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02-12-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayla View Post
What on Earth is katakana & hiragana?!
Japanese characters are split into 3 groups: Kanji, Katakana & Hiragana. Katakana & Hiragana are used for foreign words etc. & words that have no Kanji (of which their are over 2000 to learn). For living in Japan, I'd say it was compulsory to learn a number of the characters, as it will make everyday life easier

I now wait for somebody to answer more fully. I'll give it 1 hour


I'm a Cafe-kko, Nyappy in the World. But GazeRock is not dead. 「Sixth Gun」です



An Cafe, Vidoll, Versailles, Dir En Grey, Deathgaze, the GazettE, alice nine., UVERworld, Kiryu , YUI, AKB48, Buono!, Berryz Koubou, C-ute, S/mileage, Morning Musume, Zoro, Lolita23Q, Visual Kei, Oshare Kei, J-Rock, J-Pop, Idol groups FTW (≧∀≦)
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RobinMask (Offline)
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02-12-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayla View Post
You know "RobenMask" you must be like extremely smart!!!!
But just today I learned in SS(social studies) that there is a "thing" you can go through and learn more about the culture you will soon go to. I can't remember the name of what it was.

Roben, I just wanted to know what was your best subject in all the grades
up to fourth grade?
Mine is spelling. I promise you in my entire life I have NEVER EVER gotten below an A in spelling.
Thanks - I don't think I'm anywhere near as smart as some of the other members though, but maybe in time, lol!

Ah, that sounds quite interesting. Have you considered a student-exchange programme too? I'm not sure of the details, but you'd be able to spend a little time with a Japanese family and attend a Japanese school, I think sometimes in return a Japanese student will visit your home too, so on return you'd have some extra contact with the Japanese culture via a fellow student. Good for language practise though. You could ask your school for details, or perhaps a fellow member might be able to give sites or information about details

To be honest I don't know what the grades are Here our schooling system is different . . . is fourth grade about age eight? Our "year four" is our fifth year of schooling, and the kids in that year/grade are around 8-9. I feel so old, I can't remember that far back XD I think my best subjects were maths and religious education, actually. Congratulations on doing so well in spelling too, that's awesome Spelling and English are very important subjects, so they'll be very useful to you in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayla
What on Earth is katakana & hiragana?!
Jambo summed it up, but I'll add some detail anyway XD

Katakana and Hiragana (the kanas) are the two main Japanese alphabets. The Katakana are what they mainly use to write foriegn words, or any 'borrowed' words from foriegn languages, so in menus things like 'coffee' and 'cake' will probably be written in Katakana. Hiragana is used for grammatical markers, so things like 'and' or 'to', and they are also used to tell you when a word is past/present tense and things like that - it's also used to tell you how a kanji is said, usually written small over the top.

Kanji are symbols that represent a word as a whole. Chinese characters really. It's useful to learn a few, like 'push' and 'pull' for doors, or 'stop' for the road signs, that kind of thing . . . there's around forty 'letters' in each alphabet (probably take you a week or two to learn each), and like Jambo said around 2000 or more kanji, but I think you just need around 1700 to be 'fluent' in reading. Kanji take absolutely ages to learn, so I'd say start with speaking the language and learning the 'kana', then move onto kanji when you feel confident.
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Realism (Offline)
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02-14-2011, 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCIFFIX View Post
Yeah, try to learn hiragana and katakana is the best way to start. Of course, if you want to learn some words in japanese I recomend to you watch some Anime with audio in japanese and subtitles of your choice (probably english).


DO NOT watch anime with subtitles. Watch it without subtitles. If you depend on subtitles you will never learn. Trust me.

Browse Japanese websites (without translations...just use a dictionary to look up words)

Read Japanese books (Again, no translations, use a dictionary)

Just do whatever it is that you do in English...now do it in Japanese instead.

Last edited by Realism : 02-14-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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Cayla (Offline)
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02-15-2011, 02:02 AM

Thanks alot! All of you! But, how do you know which is japanese or chinese?
Like some of them look like boxes and some of them look like gibberish.

I know this might not make sence but this is an example.
like this is chinese"#" and this is japanese"^" but some times "on the internet
it looks like boxes." Which is which?

(or both?)
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