Romance in Japan... Is reality always bitter?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Keaton421

I always present things matter of factly. It's a fact that she perceives Japanese males to be unmanly - it is not a fact that there are no manly Japanese males - I didn't think such an obvious point needed to be argued.

Wasn't arguing it... just providing balance.

Originally Posted by Keaton421

But it's also a fact that the same values and ideals are not instilled in Japanese men as are men from other countries. And Japanese men tend to be shorter and have weaker physiques than their white and black counterparts. Tend to.

And it's also a fact that Americans tend to be more overweight and poorly educated than their Japanese counterparts. Again... not arguing just providing balance to your girlfriend's perception.

Originally Posted by Keaton421

Seeing as how I'm not Japanese and I don't know any Japanese males, I didn't feel as if I needed to inject my personal opinion on the matter.

Well I do know Japanese males (as well as females) and so I felt I needed to inject mine.

[TomoyaIchigo]

Ah! come on... I wanted to know about those who have such experiences... because this is really strange to me... for me.. I nvr really fall in love with any girl for 18yrs but finally I did. And I did ask her out after we met 2nd time... well, it turned out pretty perfect and we've been together for 3yrs now... you could say I'm pretty much suck at my romance life... I didnt really get any experience of hardship to conqure a girl heart nor had any remarkable memories so far.

So, I wanna know how it is like getting into alot of trouble like in manga and being love by a girl so much without knowing it.

Come on, you too, girls... if you have someone you love so much yet still that person ignored you.. shared with me how you feeling... I wanna hear them out and probably could give some advice from a guy point of view...

ja...

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Interesting... If I were to generalise based on my experiences, I would conclude that Japanese women are MORE mature than Western.

I think the reality is that neither of our experiences count for much when making such generalisations.

I am baseing my opinion on my observations while dating and on my friends. Please don't misunderstand that I feel this is a bad thing. It just is a cultural thing. I have never seen so many 30 year old women carrying "Kitty Chan" purses, and where else is "Kawaii" so important?
In America I think we push the girls to grow up faster. This explains why you see 10 year olds wearing mini skirts and make up. This is also a cultural thing. Not good or bad in my opinion, just different.
Of course there are always exceptions to every rule, but that is what generalizations do. They take what is most prevalant in a society and use that to describe it.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Keaton421

Actually, my (Japanese) girlfriend has said this a lot too.

She says that in physique, Japanese males look weak (silly, effeminate hairstyles and stupid trendy clothes), and they don't possess qualities she considers manly, like any southern gentleman should be an expert in - independence, unwavering loyalty, honesty and honor, utmost respect for women, chivalry, fatherly qualities, decisive, stuff like that.

Japanese guys tend to be effeminate, clingy, and immature. And in general, they really don't know how to make a woman happy - they're mama's boys.

You won't read this in any book, but she said that Japanese men still subscribe to the Samurai way of treating women, as compared to the European knight; it's alright to love your wife and defend her honor, but you're above her and you shouldn't show too much love.

Her words, not mine

My wife agrees with this too. She says most (again not all) wants a woman to take care of them and that the woman should just agree with him even if it is something that she really is against. Also, she feels that Japanese men are not taught to show their feelings and that loving their woman is just something they should know and never should have to show.
My wife was amazed that I told my Japanese friends that I loved her even when she was sitting right there. She told me that it would never happen if she was with a Japanese guy.
Have you ever heard of a Narita divorce? That is when newlyweds come back from a honeymoon only to get a divorce. On the honeymoon the woman must take charge because the guy is too scared or withdrawn to ask for anything and the woman takes this as a sign of weakness. She sees that her life will be this way and decides to leave.
On the other hand, Japanese women are fed this stuff about western men being a certain way too (strong, straight forward, loving. etc). This is also a generalization.
As for the comment about Japan would have died out if the women felt this way about Japanese men. Japan has been a closed society until recently. If you don't see anything different you can't miss it and if you have no choice you take what is available.
I can see that Japan is starting to act more westernized and the younger people are changing. I don't know if it is good or bad but maybe we will lose what makes Japan so beautiful and unique. Just my opinion.

[cridgit001]

I find that very interesting. Also, if I was a woman, I would find the whole "weak guy" thing very frustrating. Perhaps, and this is just a thought, that since it was such a closed society, that is all they were used to and that's all they expected. But now since they are seeing what the rest of the world is like (western I suppose*for some reason I always think this is America but I know it's not*) that they slowly changing, some faster than others. Perhaps its always been there (annoyed at the weak guy) and its finally surfacing because they have an alternative. This is just a thought, please don't shoot me.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

I am baseing my opinion on my observations while dating and on my friends. Please don't misunderstand that I feel this is a bad thing. It just is a cultural thing. I have never seen so many 30 year old women carrying "Kitty Chan" purses, and where else is "Kawaii" so important?
In America I think we push the girls to grow up faster. This explains why you see 10 year olds wearing mini skirts and make up. This is also a cultural thing. Not good or bad in my opinion, just different.
Of course there are always exceptions to every rule, but that is what generalizations do. They take what is most prevalant in a society and use that to describe it.

I'm not misunderstanding... just disagreeing with your opinion based on your observations/perceptions simply because my perceptions/observations are completely different and I'm not willing to jump to any conclusions based on them.

[Keaton421]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I'm not misunderstanding... just disagreeing with your opinion based on your observations/perceptions simply because my perceptions/observations are completely different and I'm not willing to jump to any conclusions based on them.

Why, might I ask, are you so determined to defend the Japanese at each and every turn?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by cridgit001

I find that very interesting. Also, if I was a woman, I would find the whole "weak guy" thing very frustrating. Perhaps, and this is just a thought, that since it was such a closed society, that is all they were used to and that's all they expected. But now since they are seeing what the rest of the world is like (western I suppose*for some reason I always think this is America but I know it's not*) that they slowly changing, some faster than others. Perhaps its always been there (annoyed at the weak guy) and its finally surfacing because they have an alternative. This is just a thought, please don't shoot me.

Wait... are you implying that Westerners are inherently physically superior and that now that Japan has opened up Japanese women now "know what they're missing out on?"

Really?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Keaton421

Why, might I ask, are you so determined to defend the Japanese at each and every turn?

Replace Japan with another nation and I'd be equally defensive if I thought that people were being judgemental or overly simplistic. It just so happens that I'm studying Japanese at university, have many Japanese friends and this is the Japan forum. Go figure.

[Keaton421]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Replace Japan with another nation and I'd be equally defensive if I thought that people were being judgemental or overly simplistic. It just so happens that I'm studying Japanese at university, have many Japanese friends and this is the Japan forum. Go figure.

If it were generalizations about America, I doubt you'd defend us with as much fervor. Hell, I'm beginning to believe that you're learning Japanese and so on because of an obsession for Japan - you know those guys that say "as an otaku, naturally I believe Japan to be superior". I think you've got the hots for Japan, and even when you don't have something to add to the discussion, you say "well our opinions are different", or playing moderator and adding some kind of "balance" (which consists of you saying 'I'm adding balance') that you feel is necessary.

Do you have an opinion on the matter?