Romance in Japan... Is reality always bitter?

[TomoyaIchigo]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

My wife agrees with this too. She says most (again not all) wants a woman to take care of them and that the woman should just agree with him even if it is something that she really is against. Also, she feels that Japanese men are not taught to show their feelings and that loving their woman is just something they should know and never should have to show.
My wife was amazed that I told my Japanese friends that I loved her even when she was sitting right there. She told me that it would never happen if she was with a Japanese guy.
Have you ever heard of a Narita divorce? That is when newlyweds come back from a honeymoon only to get a divorce. On the honeymoon the woman must take charge because the guy is too scared or withdrawn to ask for anything and the woman takes this as a sign of weakness. She sees that her life will be this way and decides to leave.
On the other hand, Japanese women are fed this stuff about western men being a certain way too (strong, straight forward, loving. etc). This is also a generalization.
As for the comment about Japan would have died out if the women felt this way about Japanese men. Japan has been a closed society until recently. If you don't see anything different you can't miss it and if you have no choice you take what is available.
I can see that Japan is starting to act more westernized and the younger people are changing. I don't know if it is good or bad but maybe we will lose what makes Japan so beautiful and unique. Just my opinion.

bELyVIS, thank you so much. This is what I been looking for. I totally agree with you on the point that "Japanese Man does not show their love for one's own woman". I'm not blaming them. This is a cultural fact. Different country and culture have effects on emotion of the people living in.

Ronin4hire, I'm sorry to say this but I started my thread to GENERALIZE on "Why Japanese Guys are too shy in front of Girls". Not to criticize or defend whether there really are or not. And as a matter of fact, we are talking about those guys who grown up in Japan and totally influence by their culture. Not on those who found their way out of that society and adapt to new culture. You may have 100 or 1000 of Japanese friend but there are billions of people living in Japan. And I could say that you only become to know those who are you type, i.e. more mature Japanese guy. You doesn't seem to come across those with shy character.

Ronin4hire & Keaton421 may stop arguing since you two are of the real topic and I dun want my thread just closed down without any proper answer. I'm sure there are lots of people who interested in this one. And I intended for those Shy Guy, if they come across this thread, could pick up some useful tip about their weakness and gain strength to go out with real cute girls.

On the second thought, I could not disagree with Spicytuna. Yeah, u r rite! There r still girl who like shy character than dare devil guys. Girl with soft heart and kindness. If I could have such GF, I would rather be a soft & weak guy like them. I dun like tough girls... peace

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by TomoyaIchigo

Ronin4hire, I'm sorry to say this but I started my thread to GENERALIZE on "Why Japanese Guys are too shy in front of Girls". Not to criticize or defend whether there really are or not. And as a matter of fact, we are talking about those guys who grown up in Japan and totally influence by their culture. Not on those who found their way out of that society and adapt to new culture. You may have 100 or 1000 of Japanese friend but there are billions of people living in Japan. And I could say that you only become to know those who are you type, i.e. more mature Japanese guy. You doesn't seem to come across those with shy character.

I could say the same about Belyvis and everyone else in this thread.
I have no problems with generalisations if they are based on actual facts. Any generalisation that starts with "According to my wife..." or that uses adjectives which imply some sort of bias (weak, immature). I'm not saying they're wrong because I'm right. I'm saying that IF I were to use the same method of making generalisation then I would come to a completely different conclusion. As you say yourself... there are millions of people in Japan... what makes the ones Belyvis and Keaton know representative of Japan while the ones I know exceptions?

The fact that Japanese males are on average, slightly smaller is nothing I have a problem with. (Though all too often, those that display no functional ability at high school maths seem to think that averages are representative of the society as a whole. They aren't... what's equally important is the RANGE when it comes to interpreting such data.)

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by TomoyaIchigo

Alrite... Ladies n Gentleman, Guys n Gals... What do you think about romance in Japan? How is it like having BF or GF?

Lately I've been reading lots of romantic mangas.

Most of the plot are based on school life and they were written as if japanese guys are either perverted or really idiot who doesn't even know what a girl want. On the other hand, the girls, in manga, are very pretty, yet they fight each other to be GF of those good-for-nothing male lead.

Guys... I mean no offense here. I know most of japan guys are really bright and talented. But how do you guys feel about those character in manga. Are there such boy n girl in Japan? Or are they just wild imagination of over-perverted mangaka's thoughts?

Girls.. how about you all? Do you think you will do something like that in those manga if you like a guy? How do you feel about those manga? What kinda guy you want as your BF?

I'm really curious about this since I read a few romance manga. I read I''s, Suzuka and a few more. If you know better manga let me know too. Hope to hear what you all have to say about this.

P.S. I'm not japanese nor live in Japan. So, I know nothing about this. Pls do care to share some experience. And I would like to have a few friend who wanna talk about this with me. Matta ne.

Who told you that "most" guys in Japan were bright and talented? Japanese guys are no more (or less) bright or talented than guys anywhere else. Most Japanese guys are very ordinary, and many go to great pains to appear that way. On the other hand, many are perverted, and like everywhere else, there are plenty of idiots to be found.

I had a class today on comparisons, and I asked my students to compare America and Japan. Interestingly enough, every student seemed to feel that America was a superior place. They said that Americans were "more cool" than Japanese, and that the food, movies, music, and quality of life was better in America than in Japan.

Manga and popular Japanese entertainment are quite far removed from the reality of Japanese life, which is why they are so popular. The stories are simple, unlikely, and often annoyingly neurotic. But to those whose existence varies very little from day-to-day, and year-to-year, the stories are a wonderful escape from reality.

Romance exists in Japan (I'm lucky to know from firsthand experience), but it's not at all like what it is in the west. Japanese people still tend to be shy in public, you'll only occasionally see couples holding hands, and it's very rare to see couples kissing in public. It's ironic that the Japanese are less shy about things like nudity, or even sex (no one is embarrassed to be seen walking into a sex shop, or to be seen reading pornographic manga on the train) than they are about public displays of emotion, particularly romance.

As for Japanese girls, I know many. Most dream of romance, and of meeting a handsome and rebellious (and hopefully rich) man, but most will settle for someone who will provide them with a secure life. Many Japanese still marry for the sake of marrying, love and romance are not seen as important parts of the typical Japanese relationship. Is suppose it's no wonder that the Japanese have less sex than any other nationality in the world, and that the birthrate continues to decline.

That is why romantic manga (and other types) are so popular, because they are pretty much the opposite of the reality here.

[Sangetsu]

The "generalizations" posted in this thread are surprisingly accurate.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I could say the same about Belyvis and everyone else in this thread.
I have no problems with generalisations if they are based on actual facts. Any generalisation that starts with "According to my wife..." or that uses adjectives which imply some sort of bias (weak, immature). I'm not saying they're wrong because I'm right. I'm saying that IF I were to use the same method of making generalisation then I would come to a completely different conclusion. As you say yourself... there are millions of people in Japan... what makes the ones Belyvis and Keaton know representative of Japan while the ones I know exceptions?

The fact that Japanese males are on average, slightly smaller is nothing I have a problem with. (Though all too often, those that display no functional ability at high school maths seem to think that averages are representative of the society as a whole. They aren't... what's equally important is the RANGE when it comes to interpreting such data.)

Ronin, I used my wife's opinion on what you wrote as well as what I've been told by my Japanese friends. How is this any different than you using your Japanese friend's opinions? You and I will never fully understand how Japanese think because we are not Japanese. The big difference in our opinions is I have lived there and you haven't. I base my opinion on my observations while I was there. My opinion has nothing to do with Japanese men's size, just how I saw them act with women.
We will never understand how Japanese think because a lot of them don't understand each other's thinking. Quit trying to be an "Armchair Sociologist".

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Ronin, I used my wife's opinion on what you wrote as well as what I've been told by my Japanese friends. How is this any different than you using your Japanese friend's opinions? You and I will never fully understand how Japanese think because we are not Japanese. The big difference in our opinions is I have lived there and you haven't. I base my opinion on my observations while I was there. My opinion has nothing to do with Japanese men's size, just how I saw them act with women.
We will never understand how Japanese think because a lot of them don't understand each other's thinking. Quit trying to be an "Armchair Sociologist".

Eh? I told you that my experience with Japanese people is not valid either when it comes to making generalisations (or it's as valid as yours).

You're the one being the armchair sociologist. You want to be taken seriously? Then take a leaf from the book of the guy that made the thread about anti-feminist white men in Japan who tend to be socially inept in the West but managed to find wives, girlfriends in Japan.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Eh? I told you that my experience with Japanese people is not valid either when it comes to making generalisations (or it's as valid as yours).

You're the one being the armchair sociologist. You want to be taken seriously? Then take a leaf from the book of the guy that made the thread about anti-feminist white men in Japan who tend to be socially inept in the West but managed to find wives, girlfriends in Japan.

Are you saying I am socially inept because I have had Japanese girlfriends and a Japanese wife? I'll have you know I have had girlfriends from several different Western countries and was married to an American before. I find most American (and some other western countries) women to be very spoiled, demanding, bossy, and uncooperative. (ladies I said most, so don't get mad) I believe that western women try so hard to be considered equals that they ruin the relationship by trying to make sure that they are in control and not an equal partner in it. If not allowing a woman to control and not share in the relationship is anti-feminist, then I am guilty of that. My wife (and prior Asian girlfriends) is very happy because I do treat her equal and we cooperate with each other. I rarely found this with the western women I was involved with. My wife refused to marry a Japanese man because she felt the same way towards them as I feel towards western women now.
Socially inept? Take a look at my photos in the members galleries. I dated a lot of those women I am in the photos with. I'd rather be socially inept and keeping busy with those beautiful Asian women than watching "Dateless Dude Theater" and getting cramps in my hand from overuse like you!

[bELyVIS]

By the way, you have insulted all Japanese women who date or marry westerners by implying that they can only find romance with western rejects. How do you think your female Japanese friends would feel about you if they knew that was your thinking?

"Many foreign women living in Japan have told me that the white men they encounter in Japan very much fit within this description. "
Is it possible that these foreign women are mad because foreign men would rather date Japanese women? This blog said nothing important because it was just one sided. Get a better source before you insult people.

[Nyororin]

*sigh*

This has turned into a weird battle of wills when it really didn`t need to be.

Japanese women who date "western" men do so generally because that is their taste in men. Of course they`re going to praise what they like. And of course, if they speak English fluently and have dedicated enough of their life to reaching that point they`re going to like the culture. Not too many people put effort toward things they have no interest in and do not like.
So of course they`re going to praise what they find most appealing.

And seriously, in a relationship, I`d be pretty shocked if one side praised some other type than they`re partner. "Yeah, I`m dating you, and I love you and all, but I really prefer such-and-such type of guy/girl so much more."
Real romantic that would be.

There are comments about men being feminine/shy, etc... That is what appeals to the majority of Japanese women. Seriously - take a look at the popular media. Just like in pretty much every country in the rest of the world, people change their image, etc, to attract the other sex. Men and women do not exist in separate worlds. In women`s magazines, one of the traits always listed toward the top in lists of what women find appealing in a man is "quiet". Another is "beautiful" (as in features, skin, hair, etc.) Men answer to this because it`s what the majority finds appealing. Not everyone, of course, but that would be impossible.

Now to move on to my personal experiences. I`ve dated several, and am now married to a Japanese man, so sort of on the opposite side here. (I`ve also dated a few "western" men, so believe I can make a fair comparison.)

Japanese men aren`t really all that different from men outside Japan. There is no stunning trait that makes them better, and no horrific trait that makes them worse. My husband would protect me with his life, as would any of the boyfriends I had in the past (both Japanese and non), so I don`t see where the assumption that western men are more suited to "protecting" their partner comes from.
Unless it`s the behavior of women. Way too many western women seem to want to do everything and be everything, while dragging their guy through the dirt.

I have very little respect for anyone who chooses their partners based on race - no matter what they may say or how they may justify it. There are decent people in any race, in any culture. I didn`t marry a Japanese guy because I didn`t like western men. I just happened to be in Japan and the guy I fell in love with and wanted to be with for the rest of my life just happened to be Japanese.

[Nyororin]

Thought of adding this to my previous post, but it was long enough as was.

In regard to manga / anime / etc referenced in the first post...
Japanese girls usually really like stories in which the protagonist and love interest have numerous "close but miss" events, building up anticipation for when the "hit" happens... And they also really tend to enjoy stories where the protagonist is the one to find the "real" personality, secret feelings, weakness, etc of their love interest. So you will see a lot of patterns of the love interest being attractive but really horrible - until they fall in love with the main character and she "opens his heart"... A sign that he`d never truly been in love with anyone else before.

It`s an extremely common literary pattern in Japan - not necessarily derived from any reality.