Attitudes toward staying home.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Sadly, millions of people go through this every year. The American court system places a HIGH FINANCIAL value on stay-at-home moms. I have never heard of a divorce proceeding where the stay-at-home mom did not receive alimony. Often the "bread winner" ends up paying for both lawyers. The divorce lawyer for the stay-at-home mom will only charge her if she receives a settlement and alimony. It's a business, and that's how it works. No catch-22 there. If the mother has a case there are thousands of lawyers who will take it at no cost until the settlement.

Like I told Nyororin, I don't have statistics. Do you? If not, I almost feel like continuing this discussion is a little pointless, just because we're both going off of what we think and what our experiences are without any solid proof.

Originally Posted by MMM

Did I say "must". I don't think there are any roles that a father and mother "must" take, but being raised by a father and mother statistically leads to the most success for a child. Yes there are screwed up kids who had a mother and father, and yes there are successful people from single family homes, but the statistics are staggering. The vast majority of men in prison came from single parent homes (mostly fatherless homes).

There are things a mother will teach a child and there are things a father will teach a child. These aren't necessarily the same things. The fact that so many men in prison didn't have fathers is testament to this.

That's interesting. Show me these statistics, please.

What do you think a mother will teach a child? What do you think a father will teach a child?

Originally Posted by MMM

Why would you ask a silly question like that?

To show you that not all households with two parents are the glowing examples of families.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

A child typically sleeps 12+ hours a day until they are school aged.
Let us say that single parent here works ONLY 8 hours a day, on the dot, every day. That leaves 4 waking hours for the child. Maybe one in the morning, add another for the trip to work and back, and we have 2 hours left in the evening for "parenting".
75% of the child`s life is spent being cared for by someone else. 75% of the most important developmental periods in a child`s life is in the hands of someone OTHER than the parent. If this is a grandparent or steady caretaker, then it`s a *better* situation than the typical daycare - where people quit and new people come in all the time. Unfortunately, most of the time it is a typical daycare to which the child goes.
But in the end, normally people wouldn`t consider 2~3 hours with a babysitter or grandparent having them "raise" the child - but yet are happy to say they are raising the child when their time spent may be even less.
I have acquaintances in the US who are full time workers and single parents. They eat breakfast with their children, deliver them to daycare... Then come home and pay the babysitter for picking the kid up from daycare and watching them until they slept. Give their baby a kiss on the forehead, then repeat the next day.
How can this be considered a good and responsible parent? It baffles me. (ETA; And they are completely confused as to why the child doesn`t listen to them, has bonding issues, or speech delays.)

I know people like that too. And that, I think we can both agree on, is bad parenting. On the other hand, I don't know many parents who spend every waking hour with their child until they're ready to go to school. I guess here, we can say that it's not black and white. There are gray areas where parents can and do leave their children for a few hours, and they're perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I don`t think my life has ended since having a child? Some things have become more inconvenient, but that is about it.
I don`t have a problem with a parent having a career. The thing is, why have a child if you`re not going to be the one raising it? When there is no choice - unexpected pregnancy, divorce, etc - I don`t have any problems with it. But choosing to have a child you`ll barely have any time for just seems incredibly selfish to me.

They should THINK about this before choosing to have a child. I am against people CHOOSING to have a child when they cannot be a responsible parent. Sometimes you have to think about priorities. If you are a single woman, totally dedicated to your career - that career is your priority. No one is going to force you to have a child. It is a choice.[/quote]

If they're going to act like how the parents you described above acted, then yes. That's selfish. It's not selfish if they work hard and actually raise their child at the same time, though. It can't work with the regular 9-5 job, no - but maybe I'm imagining myself in my own career path. I want to be a writer. I think it's possible to be a writer and work from home while taking care of a child.

Here, again, I guess it's just a gray situation. No, a parent can't raise a child while they're working all day, everyday. Yes, a parent can raise a child while they're working from home, or able to bring the child with them to work, or have a close relative or family friend watch the child if there's every anything the parent must do without the child.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Please, do not put words in my mouth.

I have said more than once that there are successful single-parent family children and screwed-up kids from two-parent homes.

HOWEVER, statistically children from two-parent homes have more success and get in less trouble than children from single-parent homes. This is basic stuff, and I hope no one is going to deny this is true.

I am going to deny it, yes. I come from a society where there are more single mothers than families with two parents. We're not a fucked up society. We have crime, just like every society in the world. We have poverty, just like every society in the world. But we're not "troubled." That's a basic fact.

Here's something for you. It doesn't prove or not prove that the children are in "less trouble", but it's pretty interesting. Single Parent Statistics - Average Single Parent Statistics

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Like I told Nyororin, I don't have statistics. Do you? If not, I almost feel like continuing this discussion is a little pointless, just because we're both going off of what we think and what our experiences are without any solid proof.




That's interesting. Show me these statistics, please.
.

Why do you always ask for statistics when you are losing a debate? You know as well as I do both MMM and Nyororin are correct. And please don't ask me for statistics.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Why do you always ask for statistics when you are losing a debate? You know as well as I do both MMM and Nyororin are correct. And please don't ask me for statistics.

No, I don't. I guess it depends on where you are - which state you're in - because where I am, there are more single mothers... and they're doing just fine. But, since you mentioned it, can you provide statistics to prove otherwise?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Like I told Nyororin, I don't have statistics. Do you? If not, I almost feel like continuing this discussion is a little pointless, just because we're both going off of what we think and what our experiences are without any solid proof.

What statistics? This is how the divorce court systems work. If you have a winnable case then divorce lawyer will represent you for free.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

That's interesting. Show me these statistics, please.

You keep saying you don't have statistics. Well, I do.

This is for the UK:

Experiments in Living: The Fatherless Family

Children living without their biological fathers:
Are more likely to live in poverty and deprivation

Children living in lone-parent households are twice as likely to be in the bottom 40% of household income distribution compared with children living in two-parent households (75% versus 40%).

Are more likely to have emotional or mental problems

After controlling for other demographic factors, children in lone-parent households are 2.5 times as likely to be sometimes or often unhappy. They are 3.3 times as likely to score poorly on measures of self-esteem.

Among children aged five to fifteen years in Great Britain, those from lone-parent families were twice as likely to have a mental health problem as those from intact two-parent families (16% versus 8%).

Among children aged five to fifteen years in Great Britain, those from lone-parent families were twice as likely to have a mental health problem as those from intact two-parent families (16% versus 8%).

Have more trouble in school

After controlling for other demographic factors, children from lone-parent households were 3.3 times more likely to report problems with their academic work, and 50% more likely to report difficulties with teachers.

It goes on and on...

Girls from lone-parent households were 1.6 times as likely to become mothers before the age of 18 (11% versus 6.8%). Controlling for other factors did not reduce the comparative odds.

At age 15, boys from lone-parent households were twice as likely as those from intact two-birthparent households to have taken any drugs (22.4% compared with 10.8%). Girls from lone-parent homes were 25% more likely to have taken drugs by the age of 15 (8.2% compared with 6.5%) and 70% more likely to have taken drugs by age 18 (33.3% compared with 19.6%). After controlling for poverty, teenagers from lone-parent homes were still 50% more likely to take drugs.

85% of Youths in Prison Grew Up in Fatherless Home
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census

70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)

85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

ScreenShot002.png (image)

I could go on, but it would seem like filibustering.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

What do you think a mother will teach a child? What do you think a father will teach a child?

I am not sure. Different things. I know my dad taught me things my mother knows nothing about, and the reverse is also true. I got a male perspective and a female perspective. It shaped who I am today and I think that is valuable.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

To show you that not all households with two parents are the glowing examples of families.

I won't ask you again. Do not put words in my mouth.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

What statistics? This is how the divorce court systems work. If you have a winnable case then divorce lawyer will represent you for free.



You keep saying you don't have statistics. Well, I do.

This is for the UK:

Experiments in Living: The Fatherless Family

Children living without their biological fathers:
Are more likely to live in poverty and deprivation

Children living in lone-parent households are twice as likely to be in the bottom 40% of household income distribution compared with children living in two-parent households (75% versus 40%).

Are more likely to have emotional or mental problems

After controlling for other demographic factors, children in lone-parent households are 2.5 times as likely to be sometimes or often unhappy. They are 3.3 times as likely to score poorly on measures of self-esteem.

Among children aged five to fifteen years in Great Britain, those from lone-parent families were twice as likely to have a mental health problem as those from intact two-parent families (16% versus 8%).

Among children aged five to fifteen years in Great Britain, those from lone-parent families were twice as likely to have a mental health problem as those from intact two-parent families (16% versus 8%).

Have more trouble in school

After controlling for other demographic factors, children from lone-parent households were 3.3 times more likely to report problems with their academic work, and 50% more likely to report difficulties with teachers.

It goes on and on...

Girls from lone-parent households were 1.6 times as likely to become mothers before the age of 18 (11% versus 6.8%). Controlling for other factors did not reduce the comparative odds.

At age 15, boys from lone-parent households were twice as likely as those from intact two-birthparent households to have taken any drugs (22.4% compared with 10.8%). Girls from lone-parent homes were 25% more likely to have taken drugs by the age of 15 (8.2% compared with 6.5%) and 70% more likely to have taken drugs by age 18 (33.3% compared with 19.6%). After controlling for poverty, teenagers from lone-parent homes were still 50% more likely to take drugs.

85% of Youths in Prison Grew Up in Fatherless Home
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census

70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)

85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

ScreenShot002.png (image)

I could go on, but it would seem like filibustering.



I am not sure. Different things. I know my dad taught me things my mother knows nothing about, and the reverse is also true. I got a male perspective and a female perspective. It shaped who I am today and I think that is valuable.



I won't ask you again. Do not put words in my mouth.

Oh, dude. I'm sorry. I completely forgot about this thread.

Thanks for the stats. Seems like you're right on the national/international scale, though I'd really like to show you the stats from where I'm from. I haven't been able to find any, though. :/ A lot of information comes up, but I'm not really in the mood to look through everything right now. I have the feeling that it'll show how strong our community is, even though there are so many single-mother households.

I guess I can come back to update later if I find something.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Oh, dude. I'm sorry. I completely forgot about this thread.

Thanks for the stats. Seems like you're right on the national/international scale, though I'd really like to show you the stats from where I'm from. I haven't been able to find any, though. :/ A lot of information comes up, but I'm not really in the mood to look through everything right now. I have the feeling that it'll show how strong our community is, even though there are so many single-mother households.

I guess I can come back to update later if I find something.

I am sure there are communities where "it takes a village" attitude can have real success. I wish those were the majority.

[burkhartdesu]

Double post... Oops

[burkhartdesu]

So lets just subject women to the monotony of the business world -- and leave our children to be raised by the failing public school system


The "womens movement" was encouraged, and even funded, by the Federal Reserve.


You say women are slaves taking care of their children, when in all actuality, they are being enslaved by the Federal Government..



It seems to me like you think a stay-at-home mother couldn't live a fulfilling life.