Getting a japanese girlfriend

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

This is a big part of the problem. It is more difficult to find a femine woman but easier to find femine men.
Let the rants begin.

That wasn't what I meant at all. I was talking about cultural expectations and schemas of relationships, not femininity or masculinity. Please lets not start up the rants again.

I can see where you're coming from because I find aggressively "I am equal to males cause I act like one" women off-putting as well, but I do dislike this idea that modern women aren't feminine and modern men are. It harks back to this idea that 'female' traits like empathy in men are a weakness and masculine traits like 'competitiveness' in women are improper. That's not fair to either party.

Besides, such things are leery to try and define without planting a foot squarely in an out-dated stereotype. What is 'feminine'? Am I not feminine if I do a lot of DIY and wear trousers? Am I not masculine if I own a stuffed animal and like to cook?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Besides, such things are leery to try and define without planting a foot squarely in an out-dated stereotype. What is 'feminine'? Am I not feminine if I do a lot of DIY and wear trousers? Am I not masculine if I own a stuffed animal and like to cook?

You raise a great point here.

The definitions of these terms (masculine and feminine) come not only from within a culture (in this case, Japan) but also through the glasses WE wear from the culture we are from.

Anyone that tells you they can examine another culture without bias is not only pulling your leg, but is pulling his own leg.

So I can understand how, from a "typical" American male perspective, Japanese men seem more "feminine" in some ways. They tend to have smaller physiques, and the men (and boys) that appear in the media are very fashion and hair style-conscious (like that isn't true in other places).

(That being said there are plenty of "tough guy" types who are legitimately intimidating...but that is another post...)

We see more cross-dressing and male-to-female transgenders in the media in Japan than the US, where it really doesn't raise an eyebrow in Japan. So, again, I understand the perspective of an American male looking at Japan (and Japanese media) and seeing males, in some ways, as being more feminine (or more correctly, more feminine males by ratio than in the US).

That being said, it is interesting being in Japan and watching a TV show about Thai media, and how the numbers of cross-dressers and transgenders is raised about 1000% in Thai media. As an American it seemed like a lot to me in Japan, but to Japanese it seems like a lot in Thailand.

Again, it is all about the cultural glasses you are wearing when looking at another culture.

[bELyVIS]

Nyororin, I know not all people from any country or culture are alike. But you do have to admit that those who are non conformist are rare. I know a few women here who are close to what I was looking for, but something was just missing in my opinion.
Please don't think that I hate American women, and I don't think you are typical and would not want to insult you. And please don't think I would insult your husband either. My Father in law and Brother in law are not typical Japanese men. They are very different in that they are very open minded and treat the women in their lives respectfully and equal (sometimes my Mother in law wants to be more than equal but he is OK with that too). Younger men are changing for the better also.
The whole thing is that we have to find who we are looking for in life to be happy with. Sure it might take some time and bad experiences, but how else do we learn? It just so happened that your someone and mine came from a long way away. If we would have to have crossed the Earth to find them, I'm sure we would have. I just learned not to settle for what is available over what I want.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Uh, I went through the thread and nobody uses the phrase "little geisha" asides from you, unless a post was deleted.

He's referring to me... though I never made any of the claims that he has implicitly accused me of.

(I did use the term "little geisha" though... I suppose thats accurate)

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by MMM

You raise a great point here.

The definitions of these terms (masculine and feminine) come not only from within a culture (in this case, Japan) but also through the glasses WE wear from the culture we are from.

Anyone that tells you they can examine another culture without bias is not only pulling your leg, but is pulling his own leg.

So I can understand how, from a "typical" American male perspective, Japanese men seem more "feminine" in some ways. They tend to have smaller physiques, and the men (and boys) that appear in the media are very fashion and hair style-conscious (like that isn't true in other places).

(That being said there are plenty of "tough guy" types who are legitimately intimidating...but that is another post...)

We see more cross-dressing and male-to-female transgenders in the media in Japan than the US, where it really doesn't raise an eyebrow in Japan. So, again, I understand the perspective of an American male looking at Japan (and Japanese media) and seeing males, in some ways, as being more feminine (or more correctly, more feminine males by ratio than in the US).

That being said, it is interesting being in Japan and watching a TV show about Thai media, and how the numbers of cross-dressers and transgenders is raised about 1000% in Thai media. As an American it seemed like a lot to me in Japan, but to Japanese it seems like a lot in Thailand.

Again, it is all about the cultural glasses you are wearing when looking at another culture.

Yes yes this. One of my specialist subjects is cross-cultural psychology; you can get an AWFUL lot of cultural bias even when you're being very careful. Actually, one of my pieces of coursework was about images of masculinity in Japan. It's changing now, I think, but certainly prior to the millennium there was quite a different yard-stick for measuring masculinity; less focussed on physical characteristics and sexuality and much more on things like role within the family/work ethic/inter-personal relations.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Yes yes this. One of my specialist subjects is cross-cultural psychology; you can get an AWFUL lot of cultural bias even when you're being very careful. Actually, one of my pieces of coursework was about images of masculinity in Japan. It's changing now, I think, but certainly prior to the millennium there was quite a different yard-stick for measuring masculinity; less focussed on physical characteristics and sexuality and much more on things like role within the family/work ethic/inter-personal relations.

It sometimes surprises me how willing Japanese media stars are willing to go on TV with no shirt on. I am not talking just about comedians, but major rock stars...and they have (to an American's eyes) much less muscle tone than I would expect...yet they are considered to be very sexy by their female fans.

This made me realize that to a Japanese fan's eyes, big muscles is not a necessarily positive feature, and a skinny physique is not necessarily a negative one, as it might be in the US and other places.

This is more than the emo whatnot...I don't see guys in emo bands in the US and Europe taking their shirts off...

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by MMM

It sometimes surprises me how willing Japanese media stars are willing to go on TV with no shirt on. I am not talking just about comedians, but major rock stars...and they have (to an American's eyes) much less muscle tone than I would expect...yet they are considered to be very sexy by their female fans.

This made me realize that to a Japanese fan's eyes, big muscles is not a necessarily positive feature, and a skinny physique is not necessarily a negative one, as it might be in the US and other places.

This is more than the emo whatnot...I don't see guys in emo bands in the US and Europe taking their shirts off...

That's interesting, and I think you have a point there. There's definite positives given to physical traits like height, shoulder width and good skin, but there's less of a positive attribution given in being built like a brick privvy. I imagine a guy built like the standard Prop Forward gets a number of "すごい！”'s and "こわい！”'s and less "かっこいい！”'s. Even looking at media stereotyping, big built guys in Japan are usually portrayed as thugs, or gentle hearted yet scary-faced giants.

I wish I still had the survey data (my laptop literally burnt out last year and wiped both it and the report. Effing DELL. ;__; ) but as part of the study on male japanese stereotypes I took an hour's trip on a train starting at midday, both saturday and sunday and counted the number of men with their children but NOT accompanied by a woman. I got a colleague to do the same thing across London during the same week and there were significantly more Japanese men alone with their children than British men in that instance. Ok, it's not bullet-proof data, but I thought it was pretty interesting that there's a bunch of men who live along the Keihan Line at least who pretty much foul up the "japanese men aren't family men" idea. I tied this back in with the idea that in the past family role (the pillar thing) defined masculinity, and that it hasn't entirely died out in today's society, but make of it what you will.

[Brass]

Sorry I haven't check the forum in a few days, wow, I did not expect this much of a response

Just letting you guys know that I'm not the type of guy who only posts once or twice then disappears from the forum (I hate people who do that). I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread yet but I plan to right now and will be responding to what I have read thus far (or at least, the general tone of it).

Also, one thing I left out in my OP is that I have been dating someone for about 4 months but didn't plan to stay with her this long for various reasons (one of the major ones is that she has kids from a ex boyfriend). I planned for this to be a short fling but she is a really nice person and she treats me well. Do you guys have any suggestions on how I should approach this situation? I feel like a complete ass for not wanting a real LTR with her but the honest truth is I don't want a LTR with someone who has kids. And before you ask, it's mutually understood that we are just dating and this is not an exclusive relationship.

[Yazoo]

Originally Posted by Brass

Sorry I haven't check the forum in a few days, wow, I did not expect this much of a response

Just letting you guys know that I'm not the type of guy who only posts once or twice then disappears from the forum (I hate people who do that). I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread yet but I plan to right now and will be responding to what I have read thus far (or at least, the general tone of it).

Also, one thing I left out in my OP is that I have been dating someone for about 4 months but didn't plan to stay with her this long for various reasons (one of the major ones is that she has kids from a ex boyfriend). I planned for this to be a short fling but she is a really nice person and she treats me well. Do you guys have any suggestions on how I should approach this situation? I feel like a complete ass for not wanting a real LTR with her but the honest truth is I don't want a LTR with someone who has kids. And before you ask, it's mutually understood that we are just dating and this is not an exclusive relationship.

I see no reason to ending a relationship if everything is working out fine. Who says it will last anyway, just enjoy it while you can

[Blitzwing85]

I agree with an earlier post which said it's often better to date someone who shares your interests, rather than someone who is your interest.

To me an attractive girl is an attractive girl no matter her race. However i do have a thing for Japanese girls...always have.
And like OP, i love the culture and everything about the country.

However, i'm uncertain whether i'd have been compatible with a Japanese girl. I never got the chance to find out but at the end of the day i met the most amazing girl ever in my hometown and the beauty of it is that she shares a lot of my interests...including my love of Japan. (although not the girls...haha).