Japanese views on dating

[evanny]

Originally Posted by ModusOperandi

than it is about the traditional western views of what a relationship should be (love and all that good stuff)?

even in western world romantic marriage is new. less than 100 years ago people were still fixed together by their parents purely based on financial and social reasons - and all that time society worked just fine with that module.
so in my view it is far too early to call it a "tradition" for western people.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by ModusOperandi

So it would be safe to assume that most marriages in Japan are centered around financial investment (some kind of materialistic interdependence between couples) than it is about the traditional western views of what a relationship should be (love and all that good stuff)?

I would disagree here.

Like marriages in the west most are centered around both.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by steven

Don't get me wrong! In Southern CA it seemed like the majority of people got divorced (I would not be surprised if the rate is over 50%). I'd say it's a fraction of that here. If I were to guess I'd say 5-10%.

How things play out in Southern CA are different than almost anywhere else in the world.

Originally Posted by steven

I've heard people be almost frank and open about their extra-relationships. And dogsbody70, I think that the places 'salary-men go after work' are like snacks. Just a place to hang out with scantily clad women who'll pour your drinks and talk to you and sing karaoke with you and stuff like that.

To be clear, snack bars are not populated with "scantily clad" women. Generally snack hostesses wear colorful versions of business type wear (skirts with blouses and jackets).

Also to be clear, snack hostesses do not traditionally sleep with their clients. It's a bar, not a whorehouse.

Originally Posted by steven

That culture seems to be completely accepted. Believe it or not, but salary women will get invited to those places as well.

Why would you say that? When I worked at a high school I went with colleagues to snack bars all the time (often with female teachers). No one went there to have sex, we went there to have good service and conversation.

[ModusOperandi]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I would disagree here.

Like marriages in the west most are centered around both.

While I agree that's the realistic approach towards marriage in the west (especially in the prenuptial era we live in), there is this sweeping notion that the ideal marriage involves nothing less than to "love, honor, cherish in sickness, in health till death and so on." (These traditional marital vows that allude to the idea of romance and endurance...not to mention the other factors such as media and the romantic masses). That's why I alluded to "views" instead of focusing on the practicality of it all.

Perhaps I misunderstood since I don't know much, if at all, about Japanese marriage but was curios about MMM's post when he stated it's more acceptable for men to cheat in Japan as long as they're bringing home the money. I thought that, culturally, Japanese marriage is mostly/solely based out of material values. I guess I took his statement too literally.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by evanny

even in western world romantic marriage is new. less than 100 years ago people were still fixed together by their parents purely based on financial and social reasons - and all that time society worked just fine with that module.
so in my view it is far too early to call it a "tradition" for western people.

There is so much more to that evanny. Statistics and all that.

People who lived and worked on farms--- living in small villages-- seldom leaving that village-- inter marrying because of that.


we are not allowed to discuss religion-- but in those days it was behave or you will burn in hell. a way of controlling we human beings with all our sinful ways. Much was based on the Bible and Heaven help you if you disobeyed the ten commandments!!


It was a dreadful sin to have a child out of wedlock and the awful consequences to that poor child-- or back street dangerous abortions.

There has been so much dreadful Bigotry in this country-- Ireland especially.


It used to be much harder to divorce. Nowadays couples can live together without it seeming a crime-- babies can be born to single women or unmarried couples--no one blinks an eye! Yet it was not so long ago-- it was criminal.


If Japan does not have RELIGION on its back condemning what they do--I DO Not know enough about Buddhism and Shintoism-- then they make their own decisions. I suppose CUSTOM is something that applies.

For those who are afraid that their sin on earth will prevent them eternal life

or perpetual Hell-- because it Was that fear that controlled so many--


In the end I believe that marriage should be taken very seriously and both partners take their part--


Here in UK no doubt many men went off to their pub or club to mix with their pals and get away from THE WIFE.


I think that in many cases- adultery can be major cause of divorce-- but also the stress of modern life also very much an issue.

It is not easy for young couples.

[Salvanas]

I know the conversation has moved on from sex before marriage, but I want to make a point.

Sex before marriage, I find, is an important part of a healthy lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean sleep with everyone and everything that moves. But if you use a condom, and take precautions you have a high chance of absolutely nothing happening.

Holding yourself for this one special person, doesn't make it any different than what it is. Yes, you might consider it "love making" and if you do, then fair enough. But, if you've never had it before, and if she hasn't either, then it's going be an interesting learning curve for both of you. And neither of you will enjoy it. I mean, do you both want to spend about 15 minutes fumbling about in the dark?

That said, "love making" happens when you have sex before marriage. It's perfectly possible, and infact I'd say having sex before marriage makes your relationship more stable. Allow me to explain.

Now, there are lots of reasons why both men and women cheat of their partners. One of the main reasons however, seem to be the fact that they are either bored of their sex life, or they're curious about what it would be like sleeping with another person.

Surveys have been done on this, and article's written. I'll give you a few links;

Cheating hearts: Who's doing it and why - Health - Sexual health - msnbc.com

9 Reasons People Cheat - Love + Sex on Shine

main reasons why people cheat survey - Google Search

They might not be proven reasons, but they're the main reasons that pop up in surveys or articles. So it's logical to assume that is the case.

Me and my best friend are basically the same except in one thing. He's a man that believes in no sex before marriage, and I'm completely the opposite of it. He's now 21, and has been married for a year to his wife, who also believed in no sex before marriage. Keep in mind, I'm a sexually active person, so I've had sex with different types of women, where he hasn't.

Only a year has past, and he came to me a few months ago, and confessed that he had cheated on his wife. I asked him why, because I was curious as to why a man who lived by the belief of no sex before marriage, would cheat on his wife. He said "I got bored with my sex life. I love her I do, but I look around and I see so many other women. I was curious, and drunk one night, and it happened."

For me, that has never been the case. When I've been in a relationship, I've never looked at a girl and thought "Oh, I've never had sex with a girl like her before." or "Damn, I would like to have sex with her."

I've thought "Oh, she's just another girl. I've tapped something like that before."

As condescending and sexist that may sound, it's the truth on what goes through my head. And so I've never cheated on my partners.

Long point, I know, and now off-topic. But that's all I wanted to say.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

But, if you've never had it before, and if she hasn't either, then it's going be an interesting learning curve for both of you. And neither of you will enjoy it. I mean, do you both want to spend about 15 minutes fumbling about in the dark?

Agree with a lot of what you said there except the above. My first experience was with another virgin and we fumbled around for more than 15 mins I can tell you. We laughed and joked the whole way through and it ended up being a great experience and very enjoyable. The thing is not to be too serious about sex. It's meant to be fun and it is!

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Agree with a lot of what you said there except the above. My first experience was with another virgin and we fumbled around for more than 15 mins I can tell you. We laughed and joked the whole way through and it ended up being a great experience and very enjoyable. The thing is not to be too serious about sex. It's meant to be fun and it is!

I was a bit harsh there, and was talking from personal experience there. I tend to stay away from virgins, not in a bad way, but for sex I find it generally annoying.

Some people might enjoy it, but from a personal point of view I didn't so much.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

To be clear, snack bars are not populated with "scantily clad" women. Generally snack hostesses wear colorful versions of business type wear (skirts with blouses and jackets).

Also to be clear, snack hostesses do not traditionally sleep with their clients. It's a bar, not a whorehouse.

I am thinking that Steven might be mixing hostess and snack bars up...

A snack bar is usually a small bar, single short counter with a few seats, and an older talkative woman (or women) as the bartender/s. There is a bit of flirting going on, but it`s more the sort you`d expect in a western style bar. Most of these places sell based on the personality of the woman behind the bar. Sure, looks can start them off - but the biggest earners in snack bars tend to be women over 40 or 50 who have been working there for 10+ years and are close friends with a lot of the patrons. They tend to be very close knit bars - and there isn`t much limiting the gender of the patrons. (Other than the simple fact that more men than women go to bars)

All the snack bars I know of are sort of the kind of bar where you go to hopefully talk with the regulars (who are likely close friends), and if they`re not there the owner/bartender will gladly talk to you. There is one close to me that generally has more women going in than men - it`s a social spot with an owner good at kicking off friendships.

Hostess bars, on the other hand, are completely different and are mainly limited to men. The goal is flirting, flattery, and if the price is right "after work" activities.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I am thinking that Steven might be mixing hostess and snack bars up...

A snack bar is usually a small bar, single short counter with a few seats, and an older talkative woman (or women) as the bartender/s. There is a bit of flirting going on, but it`s more the sort you`d expect in a western style bar. Most of these places sell based on the personality of the woman behind the bar. Sure, looks can start them off - but the biggest earners in snack bars tend to be women over 40 or 50 who have been working there for 10+ years and are close friends with a lot of the patrons. They tend to be very close knit bars - and there isn`t much limiting the gender of the patrons. (Other than the simple fact that more men than women go to bars)

All the snack bars I know of are sort of the kind of bar where you go to hopefully talk with the regulars (who are likely close friends), and if they`re not there the owner/bartender will gladly talk to you. There is one close to me that generally has more women going in than men - it`s a social spot with an owner good at kicking off friendships.

Hostess bars, on the other hand, are completely different and are mainly limited to men. The goal is flirting, flattery, and if the price is right "after work" activities.

You raise a very good point, Nyororin. Unlike the US, there are all kinds of bars in Japan... we don't have hostess bars, snack bars, or anything near the variety that is found in Japan.

It is good to distinguish that snack bars are not places to pay for anything more than food, drink, and conversation. This seems odd in the US, but makes sense in Japan. Patrons can be men or women of any age, and basically a snack bar is like hanging out with a friend you can drop in on an any time. I worked as a bartender in a snack bar for a while when I lived in Japan and it was a great experience. 90% of our customers were men, but 9 times out of 10 they didn't mind talking to me. It was a small and intimate place, like Nyororin described, and most of the customers were regulars that just liked having a friendly place where they could show up alone and know they would have someone they know to talk to. That's really the bottom line.