Interracial Relationships

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

You bring up some things I hadn't considered before, it's true there are a lot of unknowns. Would asking these questions constitute opposing the idea? I imagine that someone would have to assume negative answers to their own questions, and enough of them, to actually raise it as a problem towards their friend or family member.
I imagine a lot of those questions really should be answered in person with the parents and family, some of them are very valid questions which would really be a good reason to oppose the marriage depending on how they are answered...

Absolutely. Most mothers and fathers have an image of what their child's wedding will be like. If he or she starts talking about marrying a foreigner, all of a sudden all these concretes turn into sand. How to interact with the families, who pays for what, where the wedding will take place, and about 1000 other textbook givens go up in smoke. Americans, at least, tend to do their own thing, but even in the US a wedding is a family affair. This is at least as true in Japan. In Japan marrying for love is a relatively new concept, so why would you put yourself in a situation where you are going to have difficulties from the beginning? It's like betting on the 25/1 horse rather than the 3/1 horse. In many ways it is a business contract, though us romantic Westerners don't like to think of it that way.

[protheus]

Interracial relationships, I really hate the term, more on point would be International relationships. We are not races, WE ARE A RACE...

Zoophilia is interracial, not human-human ones. Its a shame we adopted the term and use it on daily basis, a term invented exactly by racism criteria.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

Absolutely. Most mothers and fathers have an image of what their child's wedding will be like. If he or she starts talking about marrying a foreigner, all of a sudden all these concretes turn into sand. How to interact with the families, who pays for what, where the wedding will take place, and about 1000 other textbook givens go up in smoke. Americans, at least, tend to do their own thing, but even in the US a wedding is a family affair. This is at least as true in Japan. In Japan marrying for love is a relatively new concept, so why would you put yourself in a situation where you are going to have difficulties from the beginning? It's like betting on the 25/1 horse rather than the 3/1 horse. In many ways it is a business contract, though us romantic Westerners don't like to think of it that way.

I think you've brought up an entirely different aspect of this intercultural relationships argument than we've been discussing, which is a good thing because it's a lot more tangible and real.
Although this is true in any culture, I'd like to know more about how this aspect of the relationships play out in Japan.
You already mentioned the marrying for love part, that's one thing which separates Japan from many parts of the word, what else is there?

Originally Posted by protheus

Interracial relationships, I really hate the term, more on point would be International relationships. We are not races, WE ARE A RACE...

Zoophilia is interracial, not human-human ones. Its a shame we adopted the term and use it on daily basis, a term invented exactly by racism criteria.

We've been over this, on page #1 I said:

Originally Posted by RealJames

There is only one race. The human race.

Then inuzuki replied:

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

RealJames you are absolutely right though. There is only one race in the world. Only the mind makes us truly different.

Maybe it's a good idea to change the title of the thread to intercultural? or international? (if that doesn't sound too much like the political relationships between countries lol)

[protheus]

From page 1 I was expecting the title change... but still, nothing happened, so I made a reminder post .

Intercultural sounds 100% better.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by protheus

From page 1 I was expecting the title change... but still, nothing happened, so I made a reminder post .

Intercultural sounds 100% better.

Yeah I agree, by the way if you have beef against people saying different "races" you should youtube battlestar galactica and race, there's a video of the actor going on a rant about it, it's interesting and funny/awkward lol

[inuzuki8605]

Hey, I just want to say that I am really enjoying this tread. I haven't replied because it was night time in America. haha

But yeah, you guys are coming up with some very valid points on this topic of intercultural marriages (which sounds a lot better by the way. Sorry for not thinking of it earlier)

The point about the mixed children being bullied in school. Bullying and hazing is something that has been going on in Japanese for years and years. It has been labeled one of the highest causes of suicide which is one of the leading causes of death in Japan. Although it could be the attention that mixed children attract, any child (too smart, to small, too large, too quiet, not pretty enough, too pretty, etc..) are subject to this kind of treatment by the kids in Japan. I know full well the dark side of Japanese children when helping out in the local school. They will just smack each other for no reason and the kid that got hit will laugh it off just because the other kids are laughing, not wanting to draw anymore attention to himself than has already been drawn.

I one of my good friends is a half black, half Japanese girl and she is bubbly and outgoing. I asked how it was growing up and she said that although people would look at her longer than most other students or ask her if she knew English (at the time she didn't), she had a happy childhood and wasn't ill-treated in her schools or by her friends. I also met a half white, half Japanese girl but I didn't get to talk to her much about her life (she didn't no English at all) but she also seems happy and out going. But with her, her friends pointed out the fact that she was half American, almost proudly, as if they were trying to connect me and her somehow or find that link in our cultures.

I'm sorry, Nyororin, but I don't think that RealJames friend are superficial... You would actually have to know them or talk to them in order to say something like. I have friends that are a lot like his friends, pictures, questions, and things like that. I just think of it as them being curious and I’m happy to educate them on what’s real and not just the stereotype given to me. I look at the reason why I came to Japan in the first place; to be in the culture and surround myself with Japanese people. I might have asked them as many questions as they asked me and taken more pictures haha (It was my first time out of the states) When I came back to the states, I wanted to surround myself with Japanese people and stay in that culture, using the language, etc... I think using the word "superficial" is a bit harsh. It's as if saying that the whole friendship and relationship is a lie. I genuinely love my friends and believe that they love me; it’s a bonus that he get to explore and learn about each other’s cultures. You choose who you want to be around because you find a likeness between that person and yourself. Isn’t that why you stayed and married in Japan and lived there for 10 years? (I could be wrong and if so I’m sorry for my assumption)

I believe you and your husband truly love each other, even though one of you is foreign. If your relationship didn't start with superficial thinking, why couldn't that be the same for others? Just because his narrow-minded friends didn't agree? I don't think that's enough of a reason to say that there can't be real genuine friendships and relationships because foreigners and Japanese. You go some places in America and you can hear the most hurtful things, from all colors and creeds. (I couldn’t date a guy on two different occasions because their families didn’t want them dating a black girl. They hadn’t even met me and didn’t want to). Is it safe to say that all Americans are the same way or have the same way of thinking…. I don’t think so….

I know full well that you have WAY more experience with this than I have and I value your opinion on this topic, but there has to be a light side to this dark side of Japan, or you wouldn't have stayed there so long right? Just like in the states, there are VERY BAD things about the states and living here. But then, there are things about the states and living here that make you miss it when you're gone. I love the states in spite of the bad things. Same in Japan, don’t you think?

MMM, you do have I good point about the concerns about marriage arrangements and there after. I have to admit, I didn't really think about it too much myself. But hopefully those things are discussed even before the couple decides to take that leap. The situation is truly determined by the individual couple.

Love, love, love, this tread... A true success...

[MMM]

I don't think I need to change the title of this thread, as it addresses on of the questions RealJames asked me, what are other aspects or perspectives that are different when regarding marriage. One of these is the definition of race.

Like it or not, Japanese see themselves as a different race from every other ethnicity in the world. Being Japanese is more than a nationality.

Family records are kept by the government which go back generations. The purity (or "impurity") of one's bloodline is on file. So when one decides to marry a non-Japanese that decision is not simply that of a man and a woman, but is now a part of the family's history forever. It is a "family decision" in more ways than one.

I remember in high school some American friends being bothered that the Japanese kids referred to them as "gaijin". They mistakenly understood the word to mean "foreigner". "In America YOU are the gaijin!" the American kids would respond. What they didn't understand is that "gaijin" doesn't mean foreigner. "Gaijin" means "non-Japanese".

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by MMM

I remember in high school some American friends being bothered that the Japanese kids referred to them as "gaijin". They mistakenly understood the word to mean "foreigner". "In America YOU are the gaijin!" the American kids would respond. What they didn't understand is that "gaijin" doesn't mean foreigner. "Gaijin" means "non-Japanese".

Iv encountered this a few times over the years as well. It happened in high and college with exchange students, and the little knowledge that American's knew about Japanese meant they also thought that "gaijin" meant foreigner. Unfortunately, it took another American to explain the real meaning of the word as they thought the Japanese students were lying to them.

Being called gaijin is not a "naughty" word as some seem to get really touchy over it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Iv encountered this a few times over the years as well. It happened in high and college with exchange students, and the little knowledge that American's knew about Japanese meant they also thought that "gaijin" meant foreigner. Unfortunately, it took another American to explain the real meaning of the word as they thought the Japanese students were lying to them.

Being called gaijin is not a "naughty" word as some seem to get really touchy over it.

This is a whole different topic, but I agree with you, Sinestra. Because Japanese see themselves differently than the rest of the world, and that is in a neutral way, it only makes sense they would have language that makes that distinction.

To some, simply making that distinction is enough for it to be considered rude or offensive.

Another point on race and culture, I know a married couple that lives near me that is a Japanese-American man (3rd generation, I believe) and a Japanese native woman. While their daughter might be considered multi-cultural, or at least bilingual (the dad speaks almost no Japanese) she wouldn't be considered multi-racial in Japan. The fact that her bloodline is traceable and is pure Japanese means, as I understand, she is considered Japanese. She also has a Japanese passport, as well as an American one.

My point is that blood trumps nationality when it comes to "being Japanese".

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by MMM

My point is that blood trumps nationality when it comes to "being Japanese".

This is how it was explained to me as well. Its about the blood not the nationality. As long the bloodline can be traced back to multiple generations that person is considered Japanese.

but yeah a little off-topic. I would love to discuss it more in another thread but im afraid it might turn into something sinister which is why i havent made one.